Thanks to all who replied to my in-flight weather questions.

I think that I've narrowed my selection down to a PDA solution using the
iPaq 4700, along with packages for XM weather an moving map from either
Control Vision (AnywhereWx) or AirGator (NavAirWx).

Detailed information on the web sites of both companies is a little
sketchy, and the photos are unclear, but the photos appear to show a
slightly more impressive software display from AirGator's NavAirWx than
from AnywhereWx / Map.

I have been advised that AnywhereMap's "Cones of Safety" feature is
valuable, but I am trying to place a priority on the weather display and
easy of use. Does AirGator have a better system for weather?



Thanks,
JKG

There's a guy on the CPA board who ran the software on a tablet and an
ipaq 4705. For this software the tablet killed the ipaq. It took a
full 10 seconds to zoom in one level on the ipaq, the tablet does it
immediately. Generally speaking the software runs very slow on the PDA.

Jonathan Goodish wrote:

> Thanks to all who replied to my in-flight weather questions.
>
> I think that I've narrowed my selection down to a PDA solution using the
> iPaq 4700, along with packages for XM weather an moving map from either
> Control Vision (AnywhereWx) or AirGator (NavAirWx).
>
> Detailed information on the web sites of both companies is a little
> sketchy, and the photos are unclear, but the photos appear to show a
> slightly more impressive software display from AirGator's NavAirWx than
> from AnywhereWx / Map.
>
> I have been advised that AnywhereMap's "Cones of Safety" feature is
> valuable, but I am trying to place a priority on the weather display and
> easy of use. Does AirGator have a better system for weather?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> JKG

Newps wrote:

> There's a guy on the CPA board who ran the software on a tablet and an
> ipaq 4705.Â*Â*ForÂ*thisÂ*softwareÂ*theÂ*tabletÂ*killed *theÂ*ipaq.Â*Â*ItÂ*tookÂ*a
> full 10 seconds to zoom in one level on the ipaq, the tablet does it
> immediately.Â*Â*GenerallyÂ*speakingÂ*theÂ*software Â*runsÂ*veryÂ*slowÂ*onÂ*theÂ*PDA.

Which of the two softwares?

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:
> Newps wrote:
>
>
>>There's a guy on the CPA board who ran the software on a tablet and an
>>ipaq 4705. For this software the tablet killed the ipaq. It took a
>>full 10 seconds to zoom in one level on the ipaq, the tablet does it
>>immediately. Generally speaking the software runs very slow on the PDA.
>
>
> Which of the two softwares?

He has both but was commenting on the Wx.

"Newps" > wrote in message ...
>
>
> Andrew Gideon wrote:
>> Newps wrote:
>>
>>
>>>There's a guy on the CPA board who ran the software on a tablet and an
>>>ipaq 4705. For this software the tablet killed the ipaq. It took a
>>>full 10 seconds to zoom in one level on the ipaq, the tablet does it
>>>immediately. Generally speaking the software runs very slow on the PDA.
>>
>>
>> Which of the two softwares?
>
> He has both but was commenting on the Wx.

ControlVision AnyWhereWx, or AirGator NavAirWx?

In article >,
Newps > wrote:

> There's a guy on the CPA board who ran the software on a tablet and an
> ipaq 4705. For this software the tablet killed the ipaq. It took a
> full 10 seconds to zoom in one level on the ipaq, the tablet does it
> immediately. Generally speaking the software runs very slow on the PDA.


It shouldn't surprise anyone that a TabletPC is more capable and much
faster than a PDA. Generally speaking, though, folks seem to speak
fairly highly about the speed of the iPaq 4705, though I haven't heard
anyone claim that it's comparable to a TabletPC.

The issue with the Tablet is space. I have a Cherokee and I fear that
the Tablet will simply be too big with me (6' 3", 200lbs) and my much
smaller wife in the airplane at the same time.

The other issue is that I really don't have any other justified need for
a TabletPC... this device will pretty much be a one-trick pony for me,
and even the iPaq is pricey for just that function.



JKG

I have used AnywhereWx on an Ipaq 2215 for some time now. I can't imagine
flying IFR without it. There have been some issues with the XM Weather unit
forcing activation and apparently they have been pushing out firmware
updates to try and correct that. As to which system is easier to use I
suspect that this is like asking which flight planning software is best. I
occasionaly download and run the NavAir software and find it to be more
difficult to use. I'm sure that a lot of that is related to the fact that
I've used AnywhereMap for so long. Unfortunately CV has so far refused to
provide a demo version of their software. As to the display being better on
the NavAir that seems to be the general consensus when it comes to terrain
depiction. I don't think that will be an impact on the weather because the
granularity from XM is the same for both products. CV is supposedly going to
have support for VGA display modes soon.


"Jonathan Goodish" > wrote in message
...
> Thanks to all who replied to my in-flight weather questions.
>
> I think that I've narrowed my selection down to a PDA solution using the
> iPaq 4700, along with packages for XM weather an moving map from either
> Control Vision (AnywhereWx) or AirGator (NavAirWx).
>
> Detailed information on the web sites of both companies is a little
> sketchy, and the photos are unclear, but the photos appear to show a
> slightly more impressive software display from AirGator's NavAirWx than
> from AnywhereWx / Map.
>
> I have been advised that AnywhereMap's "Cones of Safety" feature is
> valuable, but I am trying to place a priority on the weather display and
> easy of use. Does AirGator have a better system for weather?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> JKG

Rich Badaracco wrote:

> As to which system is easier to use I
> suspect that this is like asking which flight planning software is best.

What about in turbulance? How do you enter data on the palmtop while
bouncing?

- Andrew

For me, if the turbulence was "bad enough", I wouldn't be messing with the
PDA, as I use it for situational awareness only. Having said that, there a
few things that assist in rough air. First you can assign functions to the
physical buttons on the PDA. Second, Control Vision has a feature called
"Rough Air Buttons", that are icons that you can show on the screen for
several functions. Third, Control Vision supplies a keyboard with larger
character keys.
A couple screenshots :
http://www.shn.org/AWSIPA.jpg
http://www.shn.org/AWSIP1.jpg


"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
online.com...
> What about in turbulance? How do you enter data on the palmtop while
> bouncing?
>
> - Andrew
>

Yup that pretty much summarizes it. In general I don't need to be tapping
away at the keyboard. More often than not I'm changing zoom ranges. That's
done with the hat switch on the pda so it's not much of an issue. The
buttons on the pda are configurable and most common functions are taken care
of there. In the times that I have needed to use the keyboard to type a new
route or something like that I have been able to do it but not without some
difficulty. I wouldn't let that stop you from getting it though.


"Stephen McNaught" > wrote in message
...
> For me, if the turbulence was "bad enough", I wouldn't be messing with the
> PDA, as I use it for situational awareness only. Having said that, there a
> few things that assist in rough air. First you can assign functions to the
> physical buttons on the PDA. Second, Control Vision has a feature called
> "Rough Air Buttons", that are icons that you can show on the screen for
> several functions. Third, Control Vision supplies a keyboard with larger
> character keys.
> A couple screenshots :
> http://www.shn.org/AWSIPA.jpg
> http://www.shn.org/AWSIP1.jpg
>
>
> "Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
> online.com...
>> What about in turbulance? How do you enter data on the palmtop while
>> bouncing?
>>
>> - Andrew
>>
>
>

Stephen McNaught wrote:

> For me, if the turbulence was "bad enough", I wouldn't be messing with the
> PDA, as I use it for situational awareness only. Having said that, there a
> few things that assist in rough air. First you can assign functions to the
> physical buttons on the PDA. Second, Control Vision has a feature called
> "Rough Air Buttons", that are icons that you can show on the screen for
> several functions. Third, Control Vision supplies a keyboard with larger
> character keys.
> A couple screenshots :
> http://www.shn.org/AWSIPA.jpg
> http://www.shn.org/AWSIP1.jpg

The scenario I envision is being bounced around while looking for "better
weather", which might mean seeking a nearby airport at which I can land.
I'm not sufficiently familiar with the product to know how I'd do such a
thing, but (1) can I do it and (2) can I do it in turbulance?

Thanks...

- Andrew

Many of the things you want to do with the software, you can do without any
"keyboard/text" input. A lot is based on selection screens, where a list of
airports, navaids, user waypoints, etc, are listed, and you select what you
want, or tapping what you want on the moving map screen, such as the
airport. The section of the their documentation that is relevant to this, is
:
http://docs.controlvision.com/pages/finding_nearby_airport.php

One quote from that section is:
"The ideal way to select the nearest airport in an emergency is to use the
EMODE button. This button will allow you to graphically select the nearest
airport with a single tap, and will set up a flight plan to that airport,
with VNAV enabled and a glide predictor arc drawn in front of the aircraft.
For more information on this, see the EMODE section of this document."

Over all, "I" don't think it's a major problem doing what you envision.

I should point out that I have no vested interest in the company. I'm a user
of the product. Needless to say, everyone needs to base their selection on
their unique requirements. For me, I like using a PDA. I not only have the
aviation moving map software, but street level moving map for all of the
U.S. of A.(Navman Smartstreets), keep a bunch of songs in mp3 format, have
checklists, have a mini word processor and spreadsheet, Quicken, cruise the
Internet, print, view pictures, pdf files, check email, weather, calendar,
calculator, etc, etc, and fit it in my pocket. Do all that with a Garmin
296. ;-) If anyone in the eastern mass area would like a look, send me an
email if you want to meet someplace. I'm in the KOWD/K1B9/KTAN/K3B2/KPYM
area.


"Andrew Gideon" > wrote in message
online.com...
>
> The scenario I envision is being bounced around while looking for "better
> weather", which might mean seeking a nearby airport at which I can land.
> I'm not sufficiently familiar with the product to know how I'd do such a
> thing, but (1) can I do it and (2) can I do it in turbulance?
>
> Thanks...
>
> - Andrew
>

In addition to the "rough air buttons" available in CV's Bluetooth
version, another option is just to pull the pda out of the cradle, do
what you need to do, then park it back in the cradle. If you have a
competent autopilot that you trust to drive for a minute in rough air,
using 2 hands works well.

If it's really rough, though, I find it difficult to operate ANY device
in the airplane that doesn't have a large handle on it.

The XM activation problems that CV has been having are apparently a
problem with all XM users because of the way XM handles activation.

paul kgyy wrote:

> The XM activation problems that CV has been having are apparently a
> problem with all XM users because of the way XM handles activation.

I suppose this refers to the statement earlier in the thread:

"There have been some issues with the XM
Weather unit forcing activation and
apparently they have been pushing out
firmware updates to try and correct that."

Can someone please elaborate on what the "XM activation problems" are? I don't
understand what "forcing activation" means.

Thanks.

Dave

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 21:09:00 -0400, Jonathan Goodish
> wrote:

>In article >,
> Newps > wrote:
>
>> There's a guy on the CPA board who ran the software on a tablet and an
>> ipaq 4705. For this software the tablet killed the ipaq. It took a
>> full 10 seconds to zoom in one level on the ipaq, the tablet does it
>> immediately. Generally speaking the software runs very slow on the PDA.
>
>
>It shouldn't surprise anyone that a TabletPC is more capable and much
>faster than a PDA. Generally speaking, though, folks seem to speak
>fairly highly about the speed of the iPaq 4705, though I haven't heard
>anyone claim that it's comparable to a TabletPC.
>

The Tablet PC is also the only one with a display coming close to
being large enough. On a rough ride I don't want a tiny display like
a PDA.

>The issue with the Tablet is space. I have a Cherokee and I fear that
>the Tablet will simply be too big with me (6' 3", 200lbs) and my much
>smaller wife in the airplane at the same time.

Unless the tablet is a lot bigger than I remember it shouldn't be a
problem. I'm flying a Debonair which like the Bo has a roomy cabin
and very little lap space due to that massive cross bar for the dual
yoke. I have to be careful with the size of who ever is in the right
seat and the yoke can easily hit their legs going left or right and
that is without pulling it back which makes it even worse. I want a
display that can give me charts, approach and enroute, weather,
lightening, and moving map.

I currently use a 295 GPS which has a map display I consider just
barely adequate, but mounting it on the cross bar (I do have a Bo
specific mount) is a tight fit. I'd rather mount a tablet on the
yoke.

>
>The other issue is that I really don't have any other justified need for
>a TabletPC... this device will pretty much be a one-trick pony for me,

Nor do I, but I consider having weather, lightening, and charts worth
the cost.. It's still a whale of a lot cheaper than the equivalent
panel mount.

OTOH if I get to the panel of the G-III any time soon I'll probably go
with the dual Blue Mountain set up. BUT I will not purchase the panel
*stuff* until the last minute as the technology is changing so fast.
Currently I find that a good reason for going with portable, non
certified displays which cost far less.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com
>and even the iPaq is pricey for just that function.
>
>
>
>JKG

XM protects their satellite broadcast from unauthorized use by having
the XM receiver carry an authentication code. I'm not sure how the
whole process works, but when you get a new XM receiver, you call
XMRadio, provide your radio serial number, and they respond by
broadcasting a code for a couple of hours that "enables" your radio to
decode the satellite signal that you've paid for. What's apparently
happening with a number of users is that the code stored in the
receiver is being lost, particularly when it hasn't been used for a
while, as in airplanes. The CV system then displays a screen message
that receiver activation is needed. You then have to re-dial XMradio
and have them re-send the activation signal. It isn't a big deal, but
if you just got to the airport and planned to launch into LIFR with all
your inflight wx data, you will either need to wait for re-activation
or launch without it. In theory, once you make the call, you can fly
and let the system update in the air, but these things are supposed to
reduce workload, not increase it.

CV has a new software release that assists in retention of the
activation code, but I recently defeated that by turning off my system
components in the wrong order. I'm good at this... :-(

paul kgyy wrote:
> XM protects their satellite broadcast from unauthorized use by having
> the XM receiver carry an authentication code. I'm not sure how the
> whole process works, but when you get a new XM receiver, you call
> XMRadio, provide your radio serial number, and they respond by
> broadcasting a code for a couple of hours that "enables" your radio to
> decode the satellite signal that you've paid for.

Same way Directv works. Your receiver is already receiving all the
information. They program your receiver over the air to let you hear
what you paid for.

In article >,
Roger > wrote:
> >It shouldn't surprise anyone that a TabletPC is more capable and much
> >faster than a PDA. Generally speaking, though, folks seem to speak
> >fairly highly about the speed of the iPaq 4705, though I haven't heard
> >anyone claim that it's comparable to a TabletPC.
> >
>
> The Tablet PC is also the only one with a display coming close to
> being large enough. On a rough ride I don't want a tiny display like
> a PDA.


I guess it depends on what your priorities are, because both have
drawbacks. Both CV and AirGator have large-button modes where you can
easily navigate with your fingers rather than a stylus. I can easily
take the PDA off of the yoke if I need to, but fumbling with the Tablet
would be a challenge. With the daylight-readable Tablets that I've seen
(Fujitsu and Motion), there is no way that I could mount them on my
Cherokee yoke--way too big.

Sony has the U50/U70 series, which are Tablets with a much smaller (5" I
think) screen. They seem like the ideal compromise between power,
screen size, and practicality. The only problem is, they cost as much
as the other TabletPC options, and I'm not sure what I would do with a
Tablet that only has a 5" screen outside of the cockpit.

I finally decided to try the PDA route. I played around with both the
CV product and the AirGator product on the iPaq 4705 over the weekend,
and the screen is small, but adequate, at 4". AnywhereMap is much more
feature filled than the AirGator product, but it's also slower on the
iPaq. I have no idea whether a high-speed memory card would help the
situation.



JKG

That's the problem I had with them when I signed up in Phili AOPA show in
2003. When I would call XM, I got the phone clone support person who would
'refresh' my 'radio'. Then I launched, and guess what no service. All the
talking in the world would not convince them they had a problem with
support. The phone clones didn't seem to know about the Aviator mode. Now
it's better but no amount of talk would produce a credit for my un-usable
time. Very Microsoft of them.

--

Thx, {|;-)

Victor J. (Jim) Osborne, Jr.

VOsborne2 at charter dot net
"paul kgyy" > wrote in message
ups.com...
> XM protects their satellite broadcast from unauthorized use by having
> the XM receiver carry an authentication code. I'm not sure how the
> whole process works, but when you get a new XM receiver, you call
> XMRadio, provide your radio serial number, and they respond by
> broadcasting a code for a couple of hours that "enables" your radio to
> decode the satellite signal that you've paid for. What's apparently
> happening with a number of users is that the code stored in the
> receiver is being lost, particularly when it hasn't been used for a
> while, as in airplanes. The CV system then displays a screen message
> that receiver activation is needed. You then have to re-dial XMradio
> and have them re-send the activation signal. It isn't a big deal, but
> if you just got to the airport and planned to launch into LIFR with all
> your inflight wx data, you will either need to wait for re-activation
> or launch without it. In theory, once you make the call, you can fly
> and let the system update in the air, but these things are supposed to
> reduce workload, not increase it.
>
> CV has a new software release that assists in retention of the
> activation code, but I recently defeated that by turning off my system
> components in the wrong order. I'm good at this... :-(
>